Question about alpine use.

[n***@nospam.org]

Hello alpiners,

I've been a happy alpine user for some time now, and I wonder if any one
of you has some tips & tricks to share?

I have a few things I have not yet managed to figure out, so in case
anyone here has managed to do so, I would very much appreciate a pointer
in the right direction.

So here it goes...

* I experience a _slight_ freezing when I do a search in a local maildir
folder, and then exit the folder and open a new folder (I suspect that it
might depend on the de-select of the first folder, before entering the
second). The freezing is about 0.5-1.5 seconds. When just entering a local
maildir folder it is instantaneous. Another reason could perhaps be that I
have enabled thread view, and the folder has about 3000 messages, so maybe
the slight delay is that alpine sorts every time instead of "saving" the
view?

* Is it possible to see new messages in my incoming folder collections in
the top bar so I would not have to go to the folder index screen to see
new mail across all my incoming folders?

* Also, is it possible, to be able to see unread messages in an archive
folder? I move automatically mails from incoming folders to archive
folders, but then I can no longer see nr of unread emails in the archive
folders.

* How do I search across multiple folders? Today I use notmuch from the
terminal to search through them, but it would be nice to be able to do
that from alpine.

* Shortcuts. The ability to bind incoming folders to certain keys to be
able to quickly go there with one press of a button. This I today solve
either by typing "G" and then I enter the name <tab>, so already pretty
quick. Another way is the rules patch that enables me to script sequences
of key presses, so this is in principle already solveable.

* News. Are there any ways to speed up reading news in alpine? It works
fine, but when scrolling up or down, as well as when opening the news
collection the first time, it does take a few seconds.

* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that asks
me if I want to abort the connection.

That's about it in terms of minor annoyances. Overall I'm very happy so
just curious if anyone here on the list has developed any solutions to the
problems above.

Best regards,
Daniel

[William Unruh]

Post by n***@nospam.org
Hello alpiners,
I've been a happy alpine user for some time now, and I wonder if any one
of you has some tips & tricks to share?
I have a few things I have not yet managed to figure out, so in case
anyone here has managed to do so, I would very much appreciate a pointer
in the right direction.
So here it goes...
* I experience a _slight_ freezing when I do a search in a local maildir
folder, and then exit the folder and open a new folder (I suspect that it
might depend on the de-select of the first folder, before entering the
second). The freezing is about 0.5-1.5 seconds. When just entering a local
maildir folder it is instantaneous. Another reason could perhaps be that I
have enabled thread view, and the folder has about 3000 messages, so maybe
the slight delay is that alpine sorts every time instead of "saving" the
view?

If you have 3000 messages in a "folder" then yes it will take a while
both to open or to close, if you made any changes (eg deleted a
message). It has to copy the file, in parts.

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Is it possible to see new messages in my incoming folder collections in
the top bar so I would not have to go to the folder index screen to see
new mail across all my incoming folders?

Is this what you want (from .pinerc)
# List of incoming msg folders besides INBOX, e.g. ={host2}inbox, {host3}inbox
# Syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-host-name}folder-path
incoming-folders=

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Also, is it possible, to be able to see unread messages in an archive
folder? I move automatically mails from incoming folders to archive
folders, but then I can no longer see nr of unread emails in the archive
folders.

Sure you can. If you save an unread message it is still unread in the
folder saved to. (I am refering to .

Post by n***@nospam.org
* How do I search across multiple folders? Today I use notmuch from the
terminal to search through them, but it would be nice to be able to do
that from alpine.
* Shortcuts. The ability to bind incoming folders to certain keys to be
able to quickly go there with one press of a button. This I today solve
either by typing "G" and then I enter the name <tab>, so already pretty
quick. Another way is the rules patch that enables me to script sequences
of key presses, so this is in principle already solveable.
* News. Are there any ways to speed up reading news in alpine? It works
fine, but when scrolling up or down, as well as when opening the news
collection the first time, it does take a few seconds.
* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that asks
me if I want to abort the connection.

What kind of connection?

Post by n***@nospam.org
That's about it in terms of minor annoyances. Overall I'm very happy so
just curious if anyone here on the list has developed any solutions to the
problems above.
Best regards,
Daniel

[n***@nospam.org]

Post by William Unruh

Post by n***@nospam.org
* I experience a _slight_ freezing when I do a search in a local maildir
folder, and then exit the folder and open a new folder (I suspect that it
might depend on the de-select of the first folder, before entering the
second). The freezing is about 0.5-1.5 seconds. When just entering a local
maildir folder it is instantaneous. Another reason could perhaps be that I
have enabled thread view, and the folder has about 3000 messages, so maybe
the slight delay is that alpine sorts every time instead of "saving" the
view?

If you have 3000 messages in a "folder" then yes it will take a while
both to open or to close, if you made any changes (eg deleted a
message). It has to copy the file, in parts.

Thank you very much William, really appreciate your help and advice. =)
I think the easiest solution is just to archive old messages to another
folder and this problem will probably go away.

Post by William Unruh

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Is it possible to see new messages in my incoming folder collections in
the top bar so I would not have to go to the folder index screen to see
new mail across all my incoming folders?

Is this what you want (from .pinerc)
# List of incoming msg folders besides INBOX, e.g. ={host2}inbox, {host3}inbox
# Syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-host-name}folder-path
incoming-folders=

Not quite. This I have, so I have about 5 incoming folders and I do see
unread emails when I am in the incoming folders view, for each incoming
folder. My thought was if it is possible to see a total of new messages
in the top bar, right at the top of the screen, even if I am reading
emails in one of my folders? Today, if I navigate inside one of my
incoming folders, I no longer see if there is any new email in any other
incoming folder.

Post by William Unruh

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Also, is it possible, to be able to see unread messages in an archive
folder? I move automatically mails from incoming folders to archive
folders, but then I can no longer see nr of unread emails in the archive
folders.

Sure you can. If you save an unread message it is still unread in the
folder saved to. (I am refering to .

Hmm, how do you enable that? In my archived email folders, I see new
email inside the folder. But I do not see a total of new email in the
main screen, only incoming folders show a counter with new emails, not
the archived folders.

Post by William Unruh

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that asks
me if I want to abort the connection.

What kind of connection?

It can be sometimes when I access IMAP folders remotely or NNTP. If the
internet connection is slow, alpine can freeze for 60 to 90 seconds or
so, before it wakes up and asks me "do you want to cancel connection".

One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have their
email as ***@invalid.xx. Is this a standard? If so, I think I should change
from my home cooked @nospam.org.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have their

The standard is indeed @xx.invalid, not invalid.xx

nospam.org is an existing domain, and you did not ask them for permission.

***@Telcontar:~> host nospam.org
nospam.org has address 15.197.148.33
nospam.org has address 3.33.130.190
nospam.org mail is handled by 20 mailsec.protonmail.ch.
nospam.org mail is handled by 10 mail.protonmail.ch.
***@Telcontar:~>


The domain "invalid" is, on the other hand, reserved for creation of
invalid domains, nobody can register it.


***@Telcontar:~> host invalid
Host invalid not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
***@Telcontar:~> host es.invalid
Host es.invalid not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
***@Telcontar:~>

Notice that invalid.xx might get registered one day (that is, "xx" could
be registered or get registered, then it is up to them to register
"invalid.xx" or not.)

[n***@nospam.org]

Ahh, got it! Thank you very much Carlos, then I will change it.

Best regards,
Daniel

Post by Carlos E.R.
nospam.org is an existing domain, and you did not ask them for permission.
nospam.org has address 15.197.148.33
nospam.org has address 3.33.130.190
nospam.org mail is handled by 20 mailsec.protonmail.ch.
nospam.org mail is handled by 10 mail.protonmail.ch.
The domain "invalid" is, on the other hand, reserved for creation of invalid
domains, nobody can register it.
Host invalid not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
Host es.invalid not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
Notice that invalid.xx might get registered one day (that is, "xx" could be
registered or get registered, then it is up to them to register "invalid.xx"
or not.)

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by n***@nospam.org
Ahh, got it! Thank you very much Carlos, then I will change it.
Best regards, Daniel

Just don't use nospam@, there are a bunch using that name already :-D

[Allodoxaphobia]

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have

... or better yet pesudo-***@example.com (or .... @example.net)
That keeps the harvesters from sweeping up your real email addy on
usenet for use in their email spam.
Often "home cooked" domain names end up causing grief for actual
domains that really do exist.

Welcome to usenet, Daniel.
Next you'll need to know how to filter out spam postings...

Jonesy

[n***@nospam.org]

Post by Allodoxaphobia

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have

That keeps the harvesters from sweeping up your real email addy on
usenet for use in their email spam.
Often "home cooked" domain names end up causing grief for actual
domains that really do exist.

Thank you very much Jonesy, will adjust my config to reflect that.

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Welcome to usenet, Daniel.
Next you'll need to know how to filter out spam postings...

Good point! Would that be with regular alpine filters and rules? Do you
have any tips, tricks or lists that you could share so that I can just
copy your rules?

Best regards,
Daniel

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Jonesy

[Allodoxaphobia]

<- snip ->

Post by n***@nospam.org

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Welcome to usenet, Daniel.
Next you'll need to know how to filter out spam postings...

Good point! Would that be with regular alpine filters and rules? Do
you have any tips, tricks or lists that you could share so that I can
just copy your rules?

Myself, I use alpine only for email.
So, I can't help you with alpine fitering.

For usenet I use slrn.

Been using pine/alpine and slrn for over 30 years.

HNY
Jonesy

[D]

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Myself, I use alpine only for email.
So, I can't help you with alpine fitering.
For usenet I use slrn.
Been using pine/alpine and slrn for over 30 years.

Hello Jonesy, that's a good point. Perhaps alpine is not the best tool
for news. For email I have to say that I like way, way more than
thunderbird which was my old go to client for about 20 years or so.

When it comes to news, do you have any recommendations when it comes to
good groups?

Some are empty, some are full of spam, but it does seem like here and
there, there are good quality groups. The trick is just to find them. ;)

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Allodoxaphobia

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have

That keeps the harvesters from sweeping up your real email addy on
usenet for use in their email spam.
Often "home cooked" domain names end up causing grief for actual
domains that really do exist.

example.com does exist.

***@Telcontar:~> host example.com
example.com has address 93.184.216.34
example.com has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.com mail is handled by 0 .
***@Telcontar:~>

so does example.net

***@Telcontar:~> host example.net
example.net has address 93.184.216.34
example.net has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.net mail is handled by 0 .

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Welcome to usenet, Daniel.
Next you'll need to know how to filter out spam postings...

I don't think there are many mail address harvesters left on Usenet,
though. Some people use their actual real addresses, and they are happy.
Others use their real addresses modified in an easy to spot manner for a
human.

[D]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Allodoxaphobia

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have

That keeps the harvesters from sweeping up your real email addy on
usenet for use in their email spam.
Often "home cooked" domain names end up causing grief for actual
domains that really do exist.

example.com does exist.
example.com has address 93.184.216.34
example.com has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.com mail is handled by 0 .
so does example.net
example.net has address 93.184.216.34
example.net has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.net mail is handled by 0 .

Hello Carlos,

I was curious and checked out the domain, and just for the benefit of
anyone else reading this, it said if you navigate to the domain in your
browser that:

"Example Domains

As described in RFC 2606 and RFC 6761, a number of domains such as
example.com and example.org are maintained for documentation purposes.
These domains may be used as illustrative examples in documents without
prior coordination with us. They are not available for registration or
transfer.

We provide a web service on the example domain hosts to provide basic
information on the purpose of the domain. These web services are
provided as best effort, but are not designed to support production
applications. While incidental traffic for incorrectly configured
applications is expected, please do not design applications that require
the example domains to have operating HTTP service."

I had no idea about this, but now I know. =)

Best regards,
Daniel

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Allodoxaphobia
Welcome to usenet, Daniel.
Next you'll need to know how to filter out spam postings...

I don't think there are many mail address harvesters left on Usenet, though.
Some people use their actual real addresses, and they are happy. Others use
their real addresses modified in an easy to spot manner for a human.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Allodoxaphobia

Post by n***@nospam.org
One last question. I'm new to news and I see that many users have

That keeps the harvesters from sweeping up your real email addy on
usenet for use in their email spam.
Often "home cooked" domain names end up causing grief for actual
domains that really do exist.

example.com does exist.
example.com has address 93.184.216.34
example.com has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.com mail is handled by 0 .
so does example.net
example.net has address 93.184.216.34
example.net has IPv6 address 2606:2800:220:1:248:1893:25c8:1946
example.net mail is handled by 0 .

Hello Carlos,
I was curious and checked out the domain, and just for the benefit of
anyone else reading this, it said if you navigate to the domain in your
"Example Domains
As described in RFC 2606 and RFC 6761, a number of domains such as
example.com and example.org are maintained for documentation purposes.
These domains may be used as illustrative examples in documents without
prior coordination with us. They are not available for registration or
transfer.
We provide a web service on the example domain hosts to provide basic
information on the purpose of the domain. These web services are
provided as best effort, but are not designed to support production
applications. While incidental traffic for incorrectly configured
applications is expected, please do not design applications that require
the example domains to have operating HTTP service."
I had no idea about this, but now I know. =)

The thing is, as the domain resolves, alpine or any client might try (if
asked) to send an email there. I don't know if they also run a mail
server, so the result varies.

But a post to @somewhere.invalid invariably fails instantly.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by n***@nospam.org
Hello alpiners,
I've been a happy alpine user for some time now, and I wonder if any one
of you has some tips & tricks to share?
I have a few things I have not yet managed to figure out, so in case
anyone here has managed to do so, I would very much appreciate a pointer
in the right direction.
So here it goes...
* I experience a _slight_ freezing when I do a search in a local maildir
folder, and then exit the folder and open a new folder (I suspect that
it might depend on the de-select of the first folder, before entering
the second). The freezing is about 0.5-1.5 seconds. When just entering a
local maildir folder it is instantaneous. Another reason could perhaps
be that I have enabled thread view, and the folder has about 3000
messages, so maybe the slight delay is that alpine sorts every time
instead of "saving" the view?

Alpine doesn't cache what it downloads to disk, so it has to repeat the
download before displaying. I think it has the last 3 folders in RAM.

...

Post by n***@nospam.org
* News. Are there any ways to speed up reading news in alpine? It works
fine, but when scrolling up or down, as well as when opening the news
collection the first time, it does take a few seconds.

There is no cache.

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that
asks me if I want to abort the connection.

Change the time so that you get the question earlier.

[n***@nospam.org]

Post by Carlos E.R.

* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection? Today
I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that asks me if
I want to abort the connection.

Change the time so that you get the question earlier.

Thank you Carlos, will do.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by n***@nospam.org

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that
asks me if I want to abort the connection.

Change the time so that you get the question earlier.

Thank you Carlos, will do.
Best regards, Daniel

Oops. Should have said "timeout", not "time". My fingers are not as fast
as my mind and they skip letters :-D

[D]

Post by n***@nospam.org

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by n***@nospam.org
* Aborting connections. Is there a way to quickly abort a connection?
Today I have to wait for 60-90 seconds and then I get a question that
asks me if I want to abort the connection.

Change the time so that you get the question earlier.

Thank you Carlos, will do.
Best regards, Daniel

Oops. Should have said "timeout", not "time". My fingers are not as fast as
my mind and they skip letters :-D

No worries, found it! =)

Another question... when it comes to keeping track of the messages of
usenet I can either select

[ ] News Approximates New Status

or leave it unchecked.

If I select it, all messages are marked as new every time I reload the
newsgroup, _except_ if I delete one message. Then all messages earlier
than that message are not marked as new. But it is a bit weird that I
have to delete a message in order to mark the older ones as not new.

If I leave it unchecked on the other hand, no messages are marked as
new, so I only have the date and time to go on and nothing else.

Is there a way to mark all messages as read, and then get _only_ the new
ones marked as new, just like in my imap mailbox?

Best regards,
Daniel

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by D
. . .
Another question... when it comes to keeping track of the messages of
usenet I can either select
[ ] News Approximates New Status
or leave it unchecked.
If I select it, all messages are marked as new every time I reload the
newsgroup, _except_ if I delete one message. Then all messages earlier
than that message are not marked as new. But it is a bit weird that I
have to delete a message in order to mark the older ones as not new.
If I leave it unchecked on the other hand, no messages are marked as
new, so I only have the date and time to go on and nothing else.
Is there a way to mark all messages as read, and then get _only_ the new
ones marked as new, just like in my imap mailbox?

No.

It cannot work like alpine's presentation of a mailbox or folder of archived
mail messages because there is no concept of articles newly received on
the News server since your last Usenet session without checking the Date
headers.

There is no concept of articles that are "new" or "not new", only
articles that are "read" or "unread".

The original pine was a Mail client. It became a newsreader later. I
never cared for pine as a newsreader because it wasn't a threading
newsreader. Threading was added much later. I think Eduardo was the
programmer who wrote the code. Also, while I like the layout of the
index screen for Mail messages, I don't care for it for News articles.

fwiw, I use pine/alpine newsrc file naming convention, which is
convenient to allow the user to become a user on multiple News servers.

Because original pine didn't begin life as a newsreader, it used the
newsrc file format to keep track of News articles. The intent was to
allow UWash students to migrate to pine from the newsreaders they were
already using if they cared to.

I have no idea which newsreader originated the newsrc file format.
Perhaps it was nn.

The newsrc file format has no concept of flags that alpine uses to mark
Mail messages. It maintains a list of newsgroups that the user has
subscribed to, one line each. On each line is a range of article
numbers used by the News server. These are articles that the user has
read, that is, gotten to the end of the article without marking it as
unread.

That's how other newsreaders that use the newsrc file work. In pine and
alpine, the user marks the article as "read" with D Delete, but this is
a misnomer as the user cannot delete the article from the News server
and pine/alpine can pull it up again if the user looks for it.

The newsrc file has no concept of "new" and "not new", only "read" and
"unread". Any article number not in the range of article numbers is
"unread".

[x] News Approximates New displays a New indication of any News article
newer than the last article the user marked as read with the D key. This
state cannot be maintained between sessions by updating the newsrc file
because, again, the newsrc file format has no concept of "new" and "not
new".

I don't know if this is done with article number or the timestamp in the
Date header, but "greater than the article number of the highest
numbered article marked read" is probably simpler to program.

My suggestion to you, when using alpine as a newsreader, given the
limitations of the newsrc file, is to ignore New entirely as it's not a
flag that can be stored in the newsrc file and the state isn't preserved
between sessions. Instead, select articles that are newer than a certain
date.

[D]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
No.
It cannot work like alpine's presentation of a mailbox or folder of archived
mail messages because there is no concept of articles newly received on
the News server since your last Usenet session without checking the Date
headers.

...

Post by Adam H. Kerman
My suggestion to you, when using alpine as a newsreader, given the
limitations of the newsrc file, is to ignore New entirely as it's not a
flag that can be stored in the newsrc file and the state isn't preserved
between sessions. Instead, select articles that are newer than a certain
date.

Thank you very much for the in depth information Adam, that will help me
avoid a lot of trying and tinkering.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D
Another question... when it comes to keeping track of the messages of
usenet I can either select
[ ]  News Approximates New Status
or leave it unchecked.
If I select it, all messages are marked as new every time I reload the
newsgroup, _except_ if I delete one message. Then all messages earlier
than that message are not marked as new. But it is a bit weird that I
have to delete a message in order to mark the older ones as not new.
If I leave it unchecked on the other hand, no messages are marked as
new, so I only have the date and time to go on and nothing else.
Is there a way to mark all messages as read, and then get _only_ the new
ones marked as new, just like in my imap mailbox?

No. That's why I do not use Alpine for news, I use Thunderbird instead.

Adam explains the technical reasons.