My NNTP adventures continued...

[D]

Hello alpiners,

So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly due
to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.

So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally do
the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when I'm
online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.

So if not leafnode, then what?

I discovered that when setting up folder collections, there is the
"#news." type I can use.

My question is if I can use this, somehow, to make alpine pick up
downloaded news messages from a local directory?

My idea is to use fetchnews from leadnode to download my news messages to
the spool/news directory. I noticed that in this directory, groups are
directories and subdirectories, and each individual messages in a news
group is just a nr, with the full messages in the file. So for instance,
comp.mail.pine would be located under spool/news/comp/mail/alpine, and
under that directory I have the files 1, 2, 3, 4... etc. each a complete
message with headers and all.

So my question is if I can setup somehow, a folder collection of the type
"#news." and then point it at the spool/news folder and have it pick up
everything correctly?

A little bit like the Maildir-patch. I just use #md/path/to/Maildir, and
the patch picks up all messages perfectly?

If that is not possible... my second idea is to just write together a
short script that converts the messages in spool/news/... to Maildir
messages and setup each news group as a Maildir folder.

By running fetchnews, converting the files in the spool directory to
messages in a local Maildir directory, I should then be able to read all
messages in a nice and structured way.

What would not work, I assume, is replying, since I would reply with a
Maildir role and Maildir headers and news headers are not compatible.

So, those are my thoughts so far.

What do you think?

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D
Hello alpiners,
So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly due
to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally do
the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when
I'm online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
So if not leafnode, then what?

Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.

Disable the timer or cronjob. Manually, run, each time:


fetchnews -v

alpine

fetchnews -v

[D]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by D
Hello alpiners,
So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly due to
deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally do
the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when I'm
online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
So if not leafnode, then what?

Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.
fetchnews -v
alpine
fetchnews -v

Hello Carlos and thank you very much. I was wondering if you could
elaborate a little?

I note that fetchnews creates files in /var/spool/news, and that alpine
can be configured to use /var/spool/news as its local news spool.

But...

How do I get those messages to show up in alpine?

When I disconnect the internet, my remote news server collection is of
course unavailable. So I cannot even open it.

So how do I get alpine to read in the content of the /var/spool/news
directory and show it as an offline collection?

I can create a collection with the Path #news. and it will show up in my
folder collection list as News. I can open it and I see my newsgroups just
like they are in the remote news collection.

But, when I try to open a newsgroup in the local collection, I get the
following error message:

[Can't open folder #news.alt.atheism: no such folder]

So clearly there seems to be something wrong here since alpine either
cannot read the /var/spool/news directory, or I have not configured it
correctly.

Any help would be much appreciated, because I feel like I am getting close
to the goal here, and if things works as I think they are, actually I
would only need fetchnews from leafnode, and not actually the local nttp
server at all. =)

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by D
Hello alpiners,
So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly due
to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally do
the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when
I'm online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
So if not leafnode, then what?

Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.
fetchnews -v
alpine
fetchnews -v

Hello Carlos and thank you very much. I was wondering if you could elaborate
a little?
I note that fetchnews creates files in /var/spool/news, and that alpine can
be configured to use /var/spool/news as its local news spool.
But...
How do I get those messages to show up in alpine?

You simply tell alpine that the server is "localhost". Same as for any
remote server.

You don't tell it anything about /var/spool/news. It doesn't know about
that.


Nickname : Usenet
Server : localhost/service=NNTP
Path : #news.

[D]

Post by D

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by D
Hello alpiners,
So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly due
to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally do
the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when
I'm online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
So if not leafnode, then what?

Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.
fetchnews -v
alpine
fetchnews -v

Hello Carlos and thank you very much. I was wondering if you could
elaborate a little?
I note that fetchnews creates files in /var/spool/news, and that alpine can
be configured to use /var/spool/news as its local news spool.
But...
How do I get those messages to show up in alpine?

You simply tell alpine that the server is "localhost". Same as for any remote
server.
You don't tell it anything about /var/spool/news. It doesn't know about that.
Nickname : Usenet
Server : localhost/service=NNTP
Path : #news.

Ahh, then I think I know the error. I think I was being unclear, and that
confused things.

The way you suggest, works if I run the leafnode _server_. Then everything
works except for the fact that I don't see the messages on leafnode unless
I unexclude all messages.

If I unexclude all messages on my news server, I see all messages both
when reading on the server and when reading on my local leafnode. If I
exclude messages when reading on the server (I just read and then delete
everything), I see nothing on leafnode, not even _new_ messages that have
arrived. The new messages are only visible when reading through the
server, but not when reading through leafnode. Then I again have to
unexclude to see everything.

On the server, I can exclude (delete) and see only new messages, but for
some reason, that disables _all_ messages, new and old, on leafnode.

So what I _was_ trying to do above, is to point alpine directly to the
spool/news directory in the hope that I could bypass having a local nntp
server/proxy running. So _only_ using fetchnews, and not having to use
the leafnode nntp server.

My hope was that I could eliminate this additional dependency and only
depend on fetchnews, and read the message straight from the news spool
directory and into alpine.

I apologize for being unclear, and I fear that this has contributed to a
misunderstanding.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D

Post by Carlos

Post by D

 Hello alpiners,
 So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
 working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
 interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages
correctly due
 to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
 So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
 alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would
ideally do
 the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And
when
 I'm online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
 So if not leafnode, then what?

 Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.
 fetchnews -v
 alpine
 fetchnews -v

Hello Carlos and thank you very much. I was wondering if you could
elaborate a little?
I note that fetchnews creates files in /var/spool/news, and that
alpine can be configured to use /var/spool/news as its local news spool.
But...
How do I get those messages to show up in alpine?

You simply tell alpine that the server is "localhost". Same as for any
remote server.
You don't tell it anything about /var/spool/news. It doesn't know about that.
Nickname  : Usenet
Server    : localhost/service=NNTP
Path      : #news.

Ahh, then I think I know the error. I think I was being unclear, and
that confused things.
The way you suggest, works if I run the leafnode _server_. Then
everything works except for the fact that I don't see the messages on
leafnode unless I unexclude all messages.
If I unexclude all messages on my news server, I see all messages both
when reading on the server and when reading on my local leafnode. If I
exclude messages when reading on the server (I just read and then delete
everything), I see nothing on leafnode, not even _new_ messages that
have arrived. The new messages are only visible when reading through the
server, but not when reading through leafnode. Then I again have to
unexclude to see everything.
On the server, I can exclude (delete) and see only new messages, but for
some reason, that disables _all_ messages, new and old, on leafnode.
So what I _was_ trying to do above, is to point alpine directly to the
spool/news directory in the hope that I could bypass having a local nntp
server/proxy running. So _only_ using fetchnews, and not having to use
the leafnode nntp server.
My hope was that I could eliminate this additional dependency and only
depend on fetchnews, and read the message straight from the news spool
directory and into alpine.
I apologize for being unclear, and I fear that this has contributed to a
misunderstanding.

I don't understand a word of what you are saying.


The only way to use leafnode is that it is an nntp server that runs in
your computer, and you point your reader client (alpine) to it. That's
all there is to it.

Period.


Oh, I agree with Kalevi, so I do not use Alpine for news
reading/posting: not a good client. I much prefer Thunderbird for it.

[D]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by D

Post by Carlos

Post by D

 Hello alpiners,
 So my nntp adventures continue, and after getting a local nntp server
 working (leafnode) I decided that due to the weird way it tended to
 interact with my "live" news reading (not showing messages correctly
due
 to deletes etc.) I need to figure out another way.
 So basically, what I want to achieve, is a way for me to read news in
 alpine while disconnected. Writing while disconnected I would ideally
do
 the same way I write regular emails, by just postponing them. And when
 I'm online again, I'll send the postponed messages one by one.
 So if not leafnode, then what?

 Leafnode was designed to do exactly this, in the time of modems.
 fetchnews -v
 alpine
 fetchnews -v

Hello Carlos and thank you very much. I was wondering if you could
elaborate a little?
I note that fetchnews creates files in /var/spool/news, and that alpine
can be configured to use /var/spool/news as its local news spool.
But...
How do I get those messages to show up in alpine?

You simply tell alpine that the server is "localhost". Same as for any
remote server.
You don't tell it anything about /var/spool/news. It doesn't know about that.
Nickname  : Usenet
Server    : localhost/service=NNTP
Path      : #news.

Ahh, then I think I know the error. I think I was being unclear, and that
confused things.
The way you suggest, works if I run the leafnode _server_. Then everything
works except for the fact that I don't see the messages on leafnode unless
I unexclude all messages.
If I unexclude all messages on my news server, I see all messages both when
reading on the server and when reading on my local leafnode. If I exclude
messages when reading on the server (I just read and then delete
everything), I see nothing on leafnode, not even _new_ messages that have
arrived. The new messages are only visible when reading through the server,
but not when reading through leafnode. Then I again have to unexclude to
see everything.
On the server, I can exclude (delete) and see only new messages, but for
some reason, that disables _all_ messages, new and old, on leafnode.
So what I _was_ trying to do above, is to point alpine directly to the
spool/news directory in the hope that I could bypass having a local nntp
server/proxy running. So _only_ using fetchnews, and not having to use the
leafnode nntp server.
My hope was that I could eliminate this additional dependency and only
depend on fetchnews, and read the message straight from the news spool
directory and into alpine.
I apologize for being unclear, and I fear that this has contributed to a
misunderstanding.

I don't understand a word of what you are saying.
The only way to use leafnode is that it is an nntp server that runs in your
computer, and you point your reader client (alpine) to it. That's all there
is to it.
Period.
Oh, I agree with Kalevi, so I do not use Alpine for news reading/posting: not
a good client. I much prefer Thunderbird for it.

Hello Carlos, I'm actually using it _right now_, without an nntp-server
running locally. =)

See my previous post about how I did it.

Works wonerfully, snappy and off line. =)

Best regards,
Daniel

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

So my nntp adventures continue [...]

Dude, choosing alpine for NNTP was your first
big mistake and it has lead to all this unnecessary
complexity of bringing in leadnofe, fetchnews
and whatever.

1) By all means, if you like to tinker like this,
please go head.

2) If you want a solution that is simple and
just works, use tin or slrn and Eternal September.

Alpine is great for email but horrible for news.

br,
KK

[D]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

So my nntp adventures continue [...]

Dude, choosing alpine for NNTP was your first
big mistake and it has lead to all this unnecessary
complexity of bringing in leadnofe, fetchnews
and whatever.
1) By all means, if you like to tinker like this,
please go head.
2) If you want a solution that is simple and
just works, use tin or slrn and Eternal September.
Alpine is great for email but horrible for news.
br,
KK

Hello KK and thank you very much for the advice. I do enjoy tinkering, so
I'll stick with nr 1. =)

And also, for the benefit of other readers, I think alpine works great for
regular reading. This is just me enjoying some tinkering to take it from
great to even greater. ;)

Best regards,
Daniel

[D]

Post by D

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

So my nntp adventures continue [...]

Dude, choosing alpine for NNTP was your first
big mistake and it has lead to all this unnecessary
complexity of bringing in leadnofe, fetchnews
and whatever.
1) By all means, if you like to tinker like this,
please go head.
2) If you want a solution that is simple and
just works, use tin or slrn and Eternal September.
Alpine is great for email but horrible for news.
br,
KK

Hello KK and thank you very much for the advice. I do enjoy tinkering, so
I'll stick with nr 1. =)
And also, for the benefit of other readers, I think alpine works great for
regular reading. This is just me enjoying some tinkering to take it from
great to even greater. ;)
Best regards,
Daniel

Ok, I think I have a strategy for getting it the way I want it.

[D]

Post by D

Post by D

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

So my nntp adventures continue [...]

Dude, choosing alpine for NNTP was your first
big mistake and it has lead to all this unnecessary
complexity of bringing in leadnofe, fetchnews
and whatever.
1) By all means, if you like to tinker like this,
please go head.
2) If you want a solution that is simple and
just works, use tin or slrn and Eternal September.
Alpine is great for email but horrible for news.
br,
KK

Hello KK and thank you very much for the advice. I do enjoy tinkering, so
I'll stick with nr 1. =)
And also, for the benefit of other readers, I think alpine works great for
regular reading. This is just me enjoying some tinkering to take it from
great to even greater. ;)
Best regards,
Daniel

Ok, I think I have a strategy for getting it the way I want it.

Ahh... and the quest is finished!

The final solution:

1. Installed leafnode.
2. Use fetchnews to fetch news.
3. Use home cooked python script to traverse leafnodes local spool
directory and copy all news articles into a Maildir collection called
News.
4. Enjoy local news when offline.
5. Reply from Maildir News directory with a custom role that triggers on a
dot in the Newsgroup header.

The advantage now is that I do not have to run a local nntp-server. I can
just rely on the fetchnews component of leafnode and my little python
script to import the news into the Maildir collection.

If you are like me, and like to tinker with your alpine and you would like
the script in order to enjoy offline news, just let me know and I'll post
it here.

Best regards,
Daniel

[mechanic]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen
Alpine is great for email but horrible for news.

+1.