alpine: date format

[Thorsten Glaser]

Hi,

alpine uses *two* completely bogus date formats:
one for recent mails (=E2=80=9CYesterday=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CSaturday=E2=80=
=9D, etc.),
one for older mails (=E2=80=9C08/10/23=E2=80=9D but is this d/m/y, y/m/d
or something even worse?).

pine uses =E2=80=9Cmmm d=E2=80=9D for all messages, consistently.

Can I make alpine use pine=E2=80=99s format or something else better?

Thanks in advance,
//mirabilos
--=20
Gestern Nacht ist mein IRC-Netzwerk explodiert. Ich hatte nicht damit
gerechnet, darum bin ich blutverschmiert=E2=80=A6 wer konnte ahnen, da=C3=
=9F SIE so
reagier=E2=80=99n=E2=80=A6 gestern Nacht ist mein IRC-Netzwerk explodiert~~=
~
=09(as of 2021-06-15 The MirOS Project temporarily reconvenes on OFTC)

[Mikey]

Hi,
one for recent mails (“Yesterday”, “Saturday”, etc.),
one for older mails (“08/10/23” but is this d/m/y, y/m/d
or something even worse?).

It is Month/Day/Year(2 digit yr)

PINE is dead long live PINE!

[Helmut Richter]

one for recent mails (“Yesterday”, “Saturday”, etc.),
one for older mails (“08/10/23” but is this d/m/y, y/m/d
or something even worse?).

The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

Unique interpretation, and sorted date strings are chronological.

Whatever a software offers as time display options users might find
convenient, there should always be the option to use this format for *all*
dates, even if they happen to be "today", "Easter Monday", "last
Halloween" or something else.

[D]

Post by Helmut Richter

one for recent mails (“Yesterday”, “Saturday”, etc.),
one for older mails (“08/10/23” but is this d/m/y, y/m/d
or something even worse?).

The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"
Unique interpretation, and sorted date strings are chronological.
Whatever a software offers as time display options users might find
convenient, there should always be the option to use this format for *all*
dates, even if they happen to be "today", "Easter Monday", "last
Halloween" or something else.

As far as I know, the source is available for you to implement that.
Create a patch, and I'll happily apply it to my own alpine.

Personally, the dates in alpine do not disturb me much.

[Helmut Richter]

Post by Helmut Richter

one for recent mails (“Yesterday”, “Saturday”, etc.),
one for older mails (“08/10/23” but is this d/m/y, y/m/d
or something even worse?).

The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"
Unique interpretation, and sorted date strings are chronological.
Whatever a software offers as time display options users might find
convenient, there should always be the option to use this format for *all*
dates, even if they happen to be "today", "Easter Monday", "last
Halloween" or something else.

As far as I know, the source is available for you to implement that. Create a
patch, and I'll happily apply it to my own alpine.
Personally, the dates in alpine do not disturb me much.

Nor me. My priorities for reasonable date formats are

1: ls (alias ll='ls -alog --show-control-chars --time-style="+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"')
2: emacs (no solution known, certainly some LISPie must have done that)
much lower: alpine

[Thorsten Glaser]

Post by Mikey
It is Month/Day/Year(2 digit yr)

Ugh, that=E2=80=99s literally the *worst*.

Post by Mikey
The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss =3D "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

I fully agree, ISO 8601 FTW.

But ISO 8601 would be too wide for the screen, so I=E2=80=99d
be okay with what pine does. (The lack of the year does
irritate me a little, but it=E2=80=99d still be better than what
alpine currently does.)

Hmm, could do something like =E2=80=9CJul 28=E2=80=9D is current year
and =E2=80=9CJUL 28=E2=80=9D (uppercase) is not current year.


ObConfusion: alpine even lists some incoming mails as
=E2=80=9CTomorrow=E2=80=9D. Yay, time travel! (Basically, it doesn=E2=80=99=
t take
the timezone of the Date header into account when calculating
that. This really violates a number of principles=E2=80=A6)

Would be nice if the Date header were converted to localtime
by default, the user can always press =E2=80=98H=E2=80=99 to see the origin=
al.

Meow,
//mirabilos
--=20
(gnutls can also be used, but if you are compiling lynx for your own use,
there is no reason to consider using that package)
=09-- Thomas E. Dickey on the Lynx mailing list, about OpenSSL

[Holger Schieferdecker]

Post by Mikey
It is Month/Day/Year(2 digit yr)

Ugh, that’s literally the *worst*.

Post by Mikey
The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

I fully agree, ISO 8601 FTW.
But ISO 8601 would be too wide for the screen, so I’d
be okay with what pine does. (The lack of the year does
irritate me a little, but it’d still be better than what
alpine currently does.)

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
    722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T
DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Interesting, I never tried to set another format for the index lines, I
even didn't know that it's possible. I'm happy with the default for my
PC Alpine.

In my case the date is displayed as
MMM DD (like Aug 30)
for dates in the current year and
DD.MM.YYYY (like 17.08.2023)
for dates in previous years.

The help on that setting for "Index Format" says the default format for
the line is

STATUS MSGNO SMARTDATETIME24 FROMORTO(33%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(67%)

There are quite a lot of different tokens for date and/or time formats.

Holger

[D]

Post by Mikey
It is Month/Day/Year(2 digit yr)

Ugh, that’s literally the *worst*.

Post by Mikey
The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

I fully agree, ISO 8601 FTW.
But ISO 8601 would be too wide for the screen, so I’d
be okay with what pine does. (The lack of the year does
irritate me a little, but it’d still be better than what
alpine currently does.)

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE
SUBJECT(75%)
722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal (460) DON'T DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had
for a long time! =)

I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T
DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had
for a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied
on the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I
get a nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments.
Thank you very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.

Trying

Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)

+ N 688 22-11-30 20:31 Carlos E.R. ***@opensu (4490) 1 Re: Could you check...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

[Helmut Richter]

Post by Carlos E.R.

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had for
a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.
Trying
Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%)
ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

I am using pine/alpine at least since 2006, that is for 18 years now, and
have never come across these options. Meanwhile, I have found

https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/index-format.html

which explains how to configure an index line if you are already well
acquainted with the "tokens" you can use. Unfortunately, this web site
takes that for granted (perhaps they find something like SMARTDATE
self-describing enough that you can easily guess what it means and what
the alternatives would have been).

Does anyone know where to find a complete list of tokens that can be used,
preferably with a description what they mean?

[D]

Post by Helmut Richter

Post by Carlos E.R.

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had for
a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.
Trying
Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%)
ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

I am using pine/alpine at least since 2006, that is for 18 years now, and
have never come across these options. Meanwhile, I have found
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/index-format.html
which explains how to configure an index line if you are already well
acquainted with the "tokens" you can use. Unfortunately, this web site
takes that for granted (perhaps they find something like SMARTDATE
self-describing enough that you can easily guess what it means and what
the alternatives would have been).
Does anyone know where to find a complete list of tokens that can be used,
preferably with a description what they mean?

It is very simple. You go to the index line option, then press ? for help,
in that article, a link to all tokens is highlighted. Follow that link and
you have descriptions of all tokens.

I find the help of alpine to be one of its major strengths! The help pages
are excellent and very often I do not find I even need to google it. I
think the main google topic I had was setting it up with gmail.

[Helmut Richter]

Post by Helmut Richter

Post by Carlos E.R.

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T
DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had for
a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.
Trying
Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%)
ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
Could
you check...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

I am using pine/alpine at least since 2006, that is for 18 years now, and
have never come across these options. Meanwhile, I have found
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/index-format.html
which explains how to configure an index line if you are already well
acquainted with the "tokens" you can use. Unfortunately, this web site
takes that for granted (perhaps they find something like SMARTDATE
self-describing enough that you can easily guess what it means and what
the alternatives would have been).
Does anyone know where to find a complete list of tokens that can be used,
preferably with a description what they mean?

It is very simple. You go to the index line option, then press ? for help, in
that article, a link to all tokens is highlighted. Follow that link and you
have descriptions of all tokens.

Yes, of course. I tried that yesterday but pressed help too late, that is,
after pressing CR for starting the change. At this point, "Help" is on ^G
and shows nothing about what to enter. My fault, and an idiotic one.

The existence of the cited web page made me think that the remaining
information is on a web page as well. And once starting the search means
there are easily hours spent without finding anything. And the obvious is
no longer on the screen.

Thanks for your help!

[D]

Post by Helmut Richter

Post by Helmut Richter

Post by Carlos E.R.

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T
DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had for
a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.
Trying
Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%)
ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
Could
you check...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

I am using pine/alpine at least since 2006, that is for 18 years now, and
have never come across these options. Meanwhile, I have found
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/index-format.html
which explains how to configure an index line if you are already well
acquainted with the "tokens" you can use. Unfortunately, this web site
takes that for granted (perhaps they find something like SMARTDATE
self-describing enough that you can easily guess what it means and what
the alternatives would have been).
Does anyone know where to find a complete list of tokens that can be used,
preferably with a description what they mean?

It is very simple. You go to the index line option, then press ? for help, in
that article, a link to all tokens is highlighted. Follow that link and you
have descriptions of all tokens.

Yes, of course. I tried that yesterday but pressed help too late, that is,
after pressing CR for starting the change. At this point, "Help" is on ^G
and shows nothing about what to enter. My fault, and an idiotic one.
The existence of the cited web page made me think that the remaining
information is on a web page as well. And once starting the search means
there are easily hours spent without finding anything. And the obvious is
no longer on the screen.
Thanks for your help!

You're welcome! =)

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by D
It is very simple. You go to the index line option, then press ? for
help, in that article, a link to all tokens is highlighted. Follow that
link and you have descriptions of all tokens.
I find the help of alpine to be one of its major strengths! The help
pages are excellent and very often I do not find I even need to google
it. I think the main google topic I had was setting it up with gmail.

On the other hand, as they are hardcoded, it makes almost impossible to
translate Alpine to other languages.

[Adam H. Kerman]

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
--8323328-416857779-1726305972=:1902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Why exactly are you creating multipart articles in followup, just to
have a plain text part? What client are you using and why do you have it
set to do that?

[D]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
--8323328-416857779-1726305972=:1902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Why exactly are you creating multipart articles in followup, just to
have a plain text part? What client are you using and why do you have it
set to do that?

Hello Adam, I have no idea. From my side everything looks alright, and my
client is alpine. If you have any suggestions for how to fix it, please
feel free to let me know.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by D

Post by Adam H. Kerman

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
--8323328-416857779-1726305972=:1902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Why exactly are you creating multipart articles in followup, just to
have a plain text part? What client are you using and why do you have it
set to do that?

Hello Adam, I have no idea. From my side everything looks alright, and my
client is alpine. If you have any suggestions for how to fix it, please
feel free to let me know.

It didn't happ[en in this followup. I've never noticed this behavior before.

[D]

Post by Carlos E.R.

I use
24-09-12
YY-MM-DD
index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%)
SIZE SUBJECT(75%)
   722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal              (460) DON'T DELETE
THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA

Thank you very much Carlos, that really scratched a small itch I've had for
a long time! =)
I found "ATT" which enables me to see in the index, which messages have
attachments and which messages don't. Up until now, I've always relied on
the size of the message to see if there are attachments, but now I get a
nice nr in the message index, indicating the nr of attachments. Thank you
very much! =)

That's an interesting idea, adding 'ATT'. Like you, I used the size.
Trying
Index Format = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24
FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

Exactly! I'm also thinking abotu removing message nr, since I never use
it. I mean it is interesting to know how many mails I have in an inbox,
but I actually never use that knowledge for anything, so why not remove it
and get the extra screen real estate? =)

[Carlos E.R.]

...

Post by D

Post by Carlos E.R.
Trying
Index Format                      = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24
FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
Could you check...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

Exactly! I'm also thinking abotu removing message nr, since I never use
it. I mean it is interesting to know how many mails I have in an inbox,
but I actually never use that knowledge for anything, so why not remove
it and get the extra screen real estate? =)

There are commands that act on a range of messages specified by number,
IIRC.

[D]

...

Post by Carlos E.R.
Trying
Index Format                      = STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24
FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE ATT SUBJECT(75%)
Could you check...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^

Exactly! I'm also thinking abotu removing message nr, since I never use it.
I mean it is interesting to know how many mails I have in an inbox, but I
actually never use that knowledge for anything, so why not remove it and
get the extra screen real estate? =)

There are commands that act on a range of messages specified by number, IIRC.

True. But so far, most of my operations are done by either searching and
selecting, or selecting them manually with :. But that is a good point to
keep in mind.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Mikey
It is Month/Day/Year(2 digit yr)

Ugh, that’s literally the *worst*.

Post by Mikey
The only reasonable way to write a date/time is
YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

I fully agree, ISO 8601 FTW.
But ISO 8601 would be too wide for the screen, so I’d
be okay with what pine does. (The lack of the year does
irritate me a little, but it’d still be better than what
alpine currently does.)

I use

24-09-12

YY-MM-DD

index-format=STATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 FROM(20%) ADDRESSTO(10%) SIZE SUBJECT(75%)

722 24-08-26 23:36 Mail System Internal (460) DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA